Forum talk:Seperation Discussion
I suggest putting reasoning and arguements here so Leon's page is not overcrowded. 1st Whitz Tiger It seems we are at an agreement Whitz Tiger should be seperated from Whitz Wolf. 2nd Certain Fuzed Zoids Since you were nice enough to make this I give a little input. We can all see Decalto Dragon and soon Whitz Tiger are legitimately seperated articles, as are other Fuzed Zoids like D.A. Lizards. I say we consider Liger Zero Falcon and Liger Zero Pheonix because they were not only fetured as powerful new Zoids in several games, the Battle story treated them differently (Both anime and battle story Zero Falcons saved a city) as well. How about a "Liger Zero Fusion" page so that Falcon and Pheonix fuses can be a single article. Any other suggestions or opinions? I absolutely do not reccomend Buster Eagle's fusion with Gojulas Giga or Command Wolf's with Leostriker, those fusions not only look like a very slight change to the main Zoid, there is little use in explaining how the other Zoid is used as a weapon. 19:48, June 23, 2010 (UTC) If you feel the need to make separate articles for falcon / phoenix, I like the idea of a "Liger Zero Fusions" page. However, as I said before, I don't like the idea of separate articles for unequal fusions / armor-like fusions. (That would include zero falcon/phoenix, along with things like buster fury or the giga fusion). But, if the zero fusions have a significant amount of information, then I would be ok with creating a separate article for them.--Azimuth727 22:50, June 23, 2010 (UTC) I think the Falcon/Pheonix do kinda look like armor too. Though they are more significant than the CAS. I'm a bit on the fence with these two. SharkWings 23:24, June 23, 2010 (UTC) 3rd Dos Godos with Tiga Godos I think this is a good idea, Dos and Tiga are different enough from Godos model wise but Tiga is too similar to Dos Godos to be its own. Dos Godos has its own limited and a short battlestory to go with the limited. We can start asking around about this guy to help differentiate Tiga from Dos Godos too, then the article won't repeat itself if Dos and Tiga are moved into an article together.SharkWings 19:56, June 23, 2010 (UTC) I agree! Dos and Tiga seem to be different models entirely that are based off of the original Godos design. They could easily share a separate article together, keeping in mind that we compile enough information to flesh out the page nicely. -Imperial Dragon 20:17, June 23, 2010 (UTC) Agreeded with the two people who are agreeing on agreeing. (Zoids Fanatic 20:18, June 23, 2010 (UTC)) I know Dos and Tiga aren't being up for seperation at this point (Leon's talking Soul Tiger's turn now?) but I found some Japanese wikipedia stuff on Dos and Tiga that's interesting (and seperated) even with google translation. Then when I was looking for Zoids comics, the limited Dos Godos and its odd storypopped up. Sounds like I'm not the only one who dislikes the blue/Gun Sniper-y colors.SharkWings 00:27, July 1, 2010 (UTC) 4th Shield Liger 2 I don't think the MKII should get it's own article. Instead, it and every other MKII should have one article. (Zoids Fanatic 20:02, June 23, 2010 (UTC)) I like that idea, even if they are different Zoids going into one article they have similar roles and then the little MK2's like Bear Fighter MK2 can be recognized with its more powerful bretheren.SharkWings 20:06, June 23, 2010 (UTC) I'm not nearly as opposed to every MKII sharing one article than I am to each individual MKII being split off from the initial Zoid's page. It makes a bit of sense, seeing as there are so many upgrades of multiple different Zoids which are given the tilte "MKII." I still question why the variants can't be left within the own Zoid's pages which a little more explanation in-article. -Imperial Dragon 20:07, June 23, 2010 (UTC) Rather not have all in one MKII article, Sheildy MKII can do just fine alone or, if you really want more than one, put the Sheild Liger Varients with CP-01 with it. 20:10, June 23, 2010 (UTC) Ok, if a MKII is unique enough, and has enough info, then it may be a stand alone article. If not, it get's group with the others. And CP-01 is a upgrade, it's fine where it is. (Zoids Fanatic 20:11, June 23, 2010 (UTC)) Could you re-word that? I'm getting yes to some MKII's being seperate with other MKII's some how but then there's CP-01. I'm saying the CP-01 Ligers should go with MKII because that's where the CP originated. I don't like the CP thing, MK2's together is better.SharkWings 20:21, June 23, 2010 (UTC) Ok, here's what I ment. If a MKII Zoid, say the Gojulas MKII, has enough info to be a article, then make it into a article. If it doesn't, then I propose making a article called "List of MKII's" where we put info on MKII's. And the CP-01 can be mentioned, but it's best to leave it alone. (Zoids Fanatic 20:22, June 23, 2010 (UTC)) I don't like it but I'd rather have MKII's recognized together than just another varient. What should we do with Gojulas Ogre and Iron Kong PK? 20:30, June 23, 2010 (UTC) Leave them. (Zoids Fanatic 20:39, June 23, 2010 (UTC)) I vote NO on the separation of any/all MK II's. They are just variants of the original and belong with the original. This includes Shield Liger MK II.--Azimuth727 22:52, June 23, 2010 (UTC) Now looking back on it, what info is WITH the MKII's? But still, we can make a article called "List of MKII's" (Zoids Fanatic 22:54, June 23, 2010 (UTC)) But why? What would a list of MK II's do?--Azimuth727 23:08, June 23, 2010 (UTC) Hmm, good point. I'll veto then. And that's my final answer. Sorry. (Zoids Fanatic 23:10, June 23, 2010 (UTC)) Fanatic's idea was great, the MK2's are more powerful than thier cousins. There was three releases of some of them and it would be nice to show the model fandom we care about their MK2 seperation. SharkWings 23:15, June 23, 2010 (UTC) Wait? Fanatic you changed your mind?SharkWings 23:16, June 23, 2010 (UTC) Granted (that's my name) they were powerful, they never made a huge impact in the Battle Story. I do think mentioning them shows the model fandom we care. (Zoids Fanatic 23:17, June 23, 2010 (UTC)) We mention each of the MK II's on their respective pages with their base zoids. Why would we need a page full of the MK II zoids if they already have info on other pages? Maybe if they were all released together, but they weren't.--Azimuth727 23:30, June 23, 2010 (UTC) Well, several of them had seperate releases and they could use thier own page. I volenteered to help these guys so I'll see how big the infromation is. If they get thier own page we would probably move their information off the base Zoid page right?SharkWings 23:37, June 23, 2010 (UTC) BUT WHY!?!? I don't get why we would want a separate page for MK II's. All that draws them together is the fact that they are the MK II of completely separate zoids. Feel free to expand on the MK II sections within each article (within reason), but we don't need another article.--Azimuth727 23:47, June 23, 2010 (UTC) Why not? Dark Horn has a good page, it's sorta like a MK2 (Geno Breaker is similar but I don't want Un-Registered to come in and rant about that). Like I said I go check the available information first. You can volenteer to help some of these guys too, if you go out to multiple resources and ask at several different locations (I suggest five, its a sane number) and then conclude that all the resources and other Zoid Fans do not have a sufficiant amount of infromation on the MK2's and thier respective MK2 re-releases then you can not only prove they do not need seperate articles, you'll probably find something interesting on the way.SharkWings 23:56, June 23, 2010 (UTC) 5th Iron Kong 2 and Gojulas 2 Same as above. (Zoids Fanatic 20:05, June 23, 2010 (UTC)) 6th Soul Tiger I beleive that the Soul Tiger should have a article. It is a unquie enough Zoid with enough info on it. (Zoids Fanatic 20:06, June 23, 2010 (UTC)) dont create a page until we have voted, and the info on thwt page was wierd. SOUL TIGER IS RAYSE TiGER! only difference is that it is prebuilt. compare jet rayse tiger to soul tiger with power up part. it is the same zoid. We settled the soul tiger problem a while ago, why i did a poll for it, i dont know. probobly shouldnt have. point is soul tiger should stay on the rayse page. also why make a seperate pahe for soul tiger when sword wolf doesnt get its own page? my point being, soul tiger is the genesis rayse tiger--Leon35 16:25, June 24, 2010 (UTC) Um, Sword Wolf has it's own article as well. (Zoids Fanatic 16:26, June 24, 2010 (UTC)) I second that. Soul is cool and Rayse doesn't need its counterpart in the same article.SharkWings 20:46, June 23, 2010 (UTC) Huh??? I'm confused, last night I left with Soul tiger haveing a page, and Sword Wolf too, I think when I come back and its gone back to Rayse. But then Fanatic says Sword Wolf has its own too, but I think the agreement was Whitz Tiger gets a seperate page first because Decalt Dragon had its page and Sword wolf would come later. Three changes in 17 hours is really disorientating. And wait? Soul Tiger is pre-built? I thought the pre-builts were just the Genesis Ligers.SharkWings 19:40, June 24, 2010 (UTC) Why do you think the Genesis line sold so poorly? Anyhow, the articles are under protection right now, so in till we decide what to do, we can't edit them. (Zoids Fanatic 19:45, June 24, 2010 (UTC)) Was there a different run of Soul Tigers like a Korean version that came pre-built? I had to build mine and it came from the Genesis line for sure. SharkWings 19:48, June 24, 2010 (UTC) Huh. You'll have to put that in the article once we decide what to do. (Zoids Fanatic 19:54, June 24, 2010 (UTC)) 7th Areo Liger and Proto Zaber Really, in my opioun, I don't think there's enough info on these guys to make into a article. So no. (Zoids Fanatic 20:07, June 23, 2010 (UTC)) I don't know about Aero Liger but Proto Saber is definitely a good one. Why? Because it had a major role as Kouki's Zoid and it is treated as a fully customizable Zoid seperate from Saber Tiger. How about this "Aero Liger& Proto Saber" for an article, they are both unique from thier cousins Sheild liger and Saber Tiger and were in the same video games. These two are more deserving than say Slash Liger for an article, even if it has to be seperated at a later time than the other Zoids listed here. 20:16, June 23, 2010 (UTC) You got a point there. Like I said, if you can find enough info on these guys, then they can be stand alone articles. If you can find some info, then combine them. If you can't find any, leave them be. (Zoids Fanatic 20:17, June 23, 2010 (UTC)) Same as the MK II's, they're just variants. They don't have enough info to make a full article (having only info from the video games). And about being a separate zoid from sabre tiger in the VS games is that the Proto Zaber has a different head, witch can't be switched out; it also has better stats than the other sabre tigers.--Azimuth727 22:56, June 23, 2010 (UTC) Combined they make sense, I'm with the "Proto Saber & Liger" idea, because they are in several games and other game Zoids like Trinity Liger Geno Flame have thier own page. SharkWings 23:12, June 23, 2010 (UTC) 8th Mirage Liger (maybe Blade Liger AB goes with Mirage) No. Really all it is a recolored Zoid that appears in the Video games. The AB's are only upgrades, so no as well. (Zoids Fanatic 20:07, June 23, 2010 (UTC)) I agree with Zoids Fanatic. I see no point in making a separate article for either of these. I recognize the argument that the Blade Liger AB was meant to counter the Geno Breaker in Battle Story, but this is something that can easily be noted in the Blade Liger's article itself. I am against upgrades getting their own articles. -Imperial Dragon 20:11, June 23, 2010 (UTC) Actually I think Mirage should get its own but not AB. Mirage has plenty of stuff, its own limited, higher stats, and there was like a whole paragraph Un-Registered made on Max's Mirage, and that was just conversation! AB is more of an anime difference, so no for it.SharkWings 20:25, June 23, 2010 (UTC) Like I said this guy is lower priority for me but it is worth the seperation. AB I really don't care but Blade Liger Mirage deserves an article for the same reasons Breaker has one (won't go further on that) and like Wings suggested, we can put Max Rubin's chameleon Blade Liger there too. 20:38, June 23, 2010 (UTC) Well, if the article won't be a sad little stub, then go for it. (Zoids Fanatic 20:41, June 23, 2010 (UTC)) Oh yeah, concerning all these splits, who's willing to help out with them? I'll help out with Mirage after I get my promotional prints going.SharkWings 20:44, June 23, 2010 (UTC) Again, I vote NO for the creation of a separate AB or Mirage article. The AB is just a CP kit and the Mirage is just a recolor of that. The geno breaker is significantly different from it its saurer cousins, while this is just a CP kit. Saying mirage should get its own page is like saying GBJet should. Which it shouldn't.--Azimuth727 23:00, June 23, 2010 (UTC) I still like Mirage Liger getting its own page. I think (not positive here) Blade AB is like Breaker Jet from normal Breaker and those should not be seperate. Mirage is like Breaker from Saurer, a significant upgrade even if the difference is two parts, Breaker is more powerful so is Mirage, Breaker has its own limited same with Mirage, Breaker has game varients so does Mirage. Really the only thing seperating Mirage from Breaker's status is the anime. In my opinion. Still, no AB, a think that's agreed by most. SharkWings 23:09, June 23, 2010 (UTC) Like I said before, I just don't see it being a article. But, if it is decided to be made into a article, make sure it's not a stub. However, I still say this shouldn't be made into a article. (Zoids Fanatic 23:13, June 23, 2010 (UTC)) Mirage and Mirage KS already has two paragraphs, then we can add the game stuff and even add the new HMM that is coming for mirage. Plus, isn't it a Leo Master Zoid? That should count for something. But we should have some research volenteers before any seperation.SharkWings 23:19, June 23, 2010 (UTC) I agree there, reasurch would be key. (Zoids Fanatic 23:21, June 23, 2010 (UTC)) Okay, the ones with more data already and research volenteers should be up for seperation selection/consideration (on Fanatics or Leon's pages) first. Since Whitz Tiger already has a fair amount of info it doesn't need volenteers. I'll help with Mirage, Dos Godos and the MK2's maybe Proto Saber later. I want to get my Prints article improved first. Anyone want to help with the other possible seperations?SharkWings 23:31, June 23, 2010 (UTC) I would, but I can't. I don't know much about them myself. (Zoids Fanatic 23:33, June 23, 2010 (UTC)) Do you have an account on PhenoTypes Zoid Forum or ZPH or Zoids Poison? You could ask there or something. I'll ask around Ghostliger's forum.SharkWings 23:44, June 23, 2010 (UTC) I have a ZoidsPoison account. Trust me, I'm very easy to find on other site's, I always use this same username (except photobucket). (Zoids Fanatic 00:29, June 24, 2010 (UTC)) Cool. Oh, yeah now I see that on your user page. Want to ask around about any of these?SharkWings 00:34, June 24, 2010 (UTC) I can if needed. But I think we need to know for certian if we are going to make these pages. (Zoids Fanatic 00:36, June 24, 2010 (UTC)) Well, yeah none of this really means seperation for sure but you like Soul Tiger right? You could get some information on it so there is a better reason to seperate it.SharkWings 00:40, June 24, 2010 (UTC) Soul Tiger I can get info on easy. As for now, I'm working on a blog, but let's not get into that here (talk page be better). But ya, if we deicide it, I can look around on ZP (Zoids Fanatic 00:43, June 24, 2010 (UTC)) That would be great, thanks. Aw, it looks like Zoitec's article ate my image.SharkWings 00:46, June 24, 2010 (UTC) No problem. Now back to my blog. (Zoids Fanatic 00:49, June 24, 2010 (UTC)) 9th Genius Wolf Eh, not really. (Zoids Fanatic 20:08, June 23, 2010 (UTC)) It would be nice if the wolf was seperate from the lion but other than the game it came with there's not much to Genius. I'm going to say no. Unless someone makes a good article on the Wolf's game.SharkWings 20:27, June 23, 2010 (UTC) Whatever, if no one can find info and Genius is left a stub then it's not worth the article. 20:33, June 23, 2010 (UTC) Volenteering is fine but it shouldn't be a consideration factor for seperation. 00:07, June 24, 2010 (UTC) Wrong section Un-registered, but volenteers should be a Factor because without anyone to reasearch this stuff we'll just get stubs.SharkWings 00:09, June 24, 2010 (UTC) No, it shouldn't, there are other contributors here that probably know about these Zoids but are not watching this page so we won't know if they can contribute. 00:11, June 24, 2010 (UTC) Yeah, they should be something to consider, volenteers here will help indicate interest. If no-one cares but you, you'll be the one stuck with all the stubs.SharkWings 00:15, June 24, 2010 (UTC) Consider, not make a key factor simple as that. 00:24, June 24, 2010 (UTC) Volenteers If we consider seperation we should consider who's going to work on the Stubs. No seperation is garunteed but some researchers sure would help. I'll look for stuff on Mirage, Dos Godos and the MK2's after my print page has taken off.SharkWings 00:28, June 24, 2010 (UTC) If you're set on this volenteer thing I'll look for some info on the MKII's and Mirage, even though Mirage is pretty good right now. 01:01, June 24, 2010 (UTC) Scratch that, I'll help Mirage, Dos Godos and Proto Saber. Everything on the MK2's I run into is in Japanese.SharkWings 19:45, June 24, 2010 (UTC) Just remember guy's, we haven't decided on these yet. Though extra info will help. (Zoids Fanatic 19:48, June 24, 2010 (UTC)) Yeah, that's why the first line says no garuntee, but if we get a bunch of information that will sure help the seperation or non-seperation case.SharkWings 19:51, June 24, 2010 (UTC) Good point. And you say you found things in Japanese? Can you see if you can copy and past it on talk page, I have a app that may help (or give us some understandig). (Zoids Fanatic 19:57, June 24, 2010 (UTC)) There's an app for everything now XD but sure I'll go look for some of the stuff I ran into, send it to my talk page or yours, or is a link better?SharkWings 20:03, June 24, 2010 (UTC) My talk page be better. I do warn though that this will be a type of fan translation, so I'm not sure if we can use it. (Zoids Fanatic 20:07, June 24, 2010 (UTC)) Hmm, maybe we should wait then. Anyway, I forgot which links I followed last night to find it, when I run into again I'll put it on your page.SharkWings 20:23, June 24, 2010 (UTC) Thanks. (Zoids Fanatic 20:51, June 24, 2010 (UTC))